Greenlaning Scotland?

[Mark]

Dear All,

Going up to Scotland for Hogmany, staying in Maillaig on West Coast.

Two Questions, first is complex second is easier both are best answered by
an inhabitant. ( of that big vast empty bit of the country!)


I have been googling and seem to have turned up the following can anybody
confirm or deny for me to set my mind to rest.
Due to right to roam, no rights of access are marked on Scottish OS maps, I
can tell this by looking at the ones I have.
As a walker you can walk anywhere unless it is construed by the land owner
that you intend to damage land buildings or livestock/game. Under which
circumstance you may be prosecuted for trespass (Or rather shot at, with
Salt!)
As a Greenlaner any track connecting two public places i.e. two classified
roads is a classed as a byway and may be driven as such bearing in mind
sensitivities such as driving through peoples gardens/farmyards/etc etc.
Can anybody deny or confirm if this is the case?

Secondly can *anybody* reccomend any tracks near the mallaig area, willing
to travel out/down to Fort William for day trips or equivelent distances.
Severity not really any issue as there will be a 110 and Rangie present at
all times.

TIA,

Mark
E450 TFL OneTen Ex Military Hard Top (Cr*p Heater)
Y437 JFO 110 TD5 Double Cab (Fantastic Heater)


PS. I know I may be posting OT slight for the NG so if thats the case please
advise of a more suitable place to post.
PPS. I could ask for an obscure engine part of it helps.

[Paul S. Brown]

Post by Mark
Dear All,
Going up to Scotland for Hogmany, staying in Maillaig on West Coast.
Two Questions, first is complex second is easier both are best answered by
an inhabitant. ( of that big vast empty bit of the country!)
I have been googling and seem to have turned up the following can anybody
confirm or deny for me to set my mind to rest.
Due to right to roam, no rights of access are marked on Scottish OS maps,
I can tell this by looking at the ones I have.
As a walker you can walk anywhere unless it is construed by the land owner
that you intend to damage land buildings or livestock/game. Under which
circumstance you may be prosecuted for trespass (Or rather shot at, with
Salt!)
As a Greenlaner any track connecting two public places i.e. two
classified roads is a classed as a byway and may be driven as such bearing
in mind sensitivities such as driving through peoples
gardens/farmyards/etc etc. Can anybody deny or confirm if this is the
case?
Secondly can *anybody* reccomend any tracks near the mallaig area, willing
to travel out/down to Fort William for day trips or equivelent distances.
Severity not really any issue as there will be a 110 and Rangie present at
all times.

Dunno about Mallaig, but if you are willing to go down as far as Glen Coe
then there are large stretches of the old A82 which are reachable from the
current road and are a nice drive.

Be warned - the one thing they did do was dynamite all the bridges on the
old road.

P.

[Mark]

Post by Paul S. Brown
then there are large stretches of the old A82 which are reachable from the
current road and are a nice drive.
Be warned - the one thing they did do was dynamite all the bridges on the
old road.
P.

Sounds like potential for the trip up and down! any more tips?

[Andrew Kay]

Post by Mark
As a Greenlaner any track connecting two public places i.e. two classified
roads is a classed as a byway and may be driven as such bearing in mind
sensitivities such as driving through peoples gardens/farmyards/etc etc.
Can anybody deny or confirm if this is the case?

I'm definitely can deny that :-(

There are *very few* unsealed public rights of way that can legally be
driven in a motor vehicle in Scotland.

The main criteria for establishing a public Right of Way in Scotland at
common law are:

[i] It must join two public places, usually but not necessarily roads.
[ii] It must follow a more or less defined route but it does not have to be
visible on the ground as a path or track in open country.
[iii] It must have been used openly and peaceably by the public, as of
right, without the permission, express or implied of the landowner.
[iv] It must have been used without substantial or effective interruption
for 20 years or more.

The big difficulties are [iii] and [iv]. On a practical level, you'll find
very few routes you could drive anyway.
From my experience, I think landowners in Scotland buy more gates, padlocks
and chains (and probably shotguns too) than anywhere else on the planet.

RoW are not shown on OS maps for Scotland because there is no public
register of rights of way. The legislation that created Definitive Maps for
England & Wales did not apply to Scotland.

The Scottish Rights of Way and Access Society (Scotways) have a catalogue of
all known RoW in Scotland (about 8000) - but only 140 of these are
vehicular. Unfortunately, the catalogue (known as CROW) is not currently
publicly available. The Scotways website is worth a look at:
http://www.scotways.com

The online GLASS Wayfinder database has a *few* routes in Scotland which are
*believed* to have (or some may have had) public vehicular rights of way. I
say "may have had" because courtesy of the pernicious Prescriptions &
Limitations (Scotland) Act 1973, rights of way lapse if they are not used by
the public (or cannot be proven to have been used) for a period of 20 years.

The most significant of the Scottish 4x4 clubs is probably the Scottish Land
Rover Owners Club. You might find their "Green Laning" page of interest:
http://www.slroc.co.uk/articles/greenlaning.html - and just as depressing as
this Email is for you to read (and me to write, come to that!!). I got in
touch with them some time back - they didn't know of *ANY* unsurfaced routes
in Scotland that can be driven by the public as of right.

If you do any more investigation - and discover anything worth sharing,
please post it on here or on uk.rec.rights-of-way.

Cheers
Andrew Kay

[Paul S. Brown]

Post by Mark

Post by Mark
As a Greenlaner any track connecting two public places i.e. two

classified

Post by Mark
roads is a classed as a byway and may be driven as such bearing in mind
sensitivities such as driving through peoples gardens/farmyards/etc etc.
Can anybody deny or confirm if this is the case?

I'm definitely can deny that :-(
There are *very few* unsealed public rights of way that can legally be
driven in a motor vehicle in Scotland.
The main criteria for establishing a public Right of Way in Scotland at
[i] It must join two public places, usually but not necessarily roads.
[ii] It must follow a more or less defined route but it does not have to
[be
visible on the ground as a path or track in open country.
[iii] It must have been used openly and peaceably by the public, as of
right, without the permission, express or implied of the landowner.
[iv] It must have been used without substantial or effective interruption
for 20 years or more.
The big difficulties are [iii] and [iv]. On a practical level, you'll
find very few routes you could drive anyway.
From my experience, I think landowners in Scotland buy more gates,
padlocks and chains (and probably shotguns too) than anywhere else on the
planet.
RoW are not shown on OS maps for Scotland because there is no public
register of rights of way. The legislation that created Definitive Maps
for England & Wales did not apply to Scotland.
The Scottish Rights of Way and Access Society (Scotways) have a catalogue
of all known RoW in Scotland (about 8000) - but only 140 of these are
vehicular. Unfortunately, the catalogue (known as CROW) is not currently
http://www.scotways.com
The online GLASS Wayfinder database has a *few* routes in Scotland which are
*believed* to have (or some may have had) public vehicular rights of way.
I say "may have had" because courtesy of the pernicious Prescriptions &
Limitations (Scotland) Act 1973, rights of way lapse if they are not used
by the public (or cannot be proven to have been used) for a period of 20
years.
The most significant of the Scottish 4x4 clubs is probably the Scottish Land
http://www.slroc.co.uk/articles/greenlaning.html - and just as depressing as
this Email is for you to read (and me to write, come to that!!). I got
in touch with them some time back - they didn't know of *ANY* unsurfaced
routes in Scotland that can be driven by the public as of right.
If you do any more investigation - and discover anything worth sharing,
please post it on here or on uk.rec.rights-of-way.

As an addendum there are some oddities pertaining to rights of way in
Scotland which are enacted by local byelaws - the one that I can remember
is a case of enclosed estates which have a viable route through them revert
to public right of way if the gates at each end of the route are not closed
at midnight on May 1st - this varies according to the old county
boundaries, so don't take that as gospel for the whole country.

If you are coming from the south then I'd recommend the old Kilmacolm ->
Greenock road which runs past Loch Thom reservoir. It was metalled, but is
now unmaintained (since the late 50s) and has deteriorated. It is still a
council adopted road and as such a vehicular right of way howewver it has
signs at either end recommending that vehicular traffic not use it. This is
on the grounds of damage/grounding for the vehicle, but it is easily
passable by anything with more than around 8" ground clearance.

It may be worthwhile contacting the unitary authorities for a list of
adopted but unmaintained roads in the area, as these will most likely
constitute rights of way and may well be a worthwhile greenlaning exercise.

It's also probably worthwhile contacting the forestry commission as they
have a lot of forestry tracks that are worthwhile drives, but it's an open
question as to whether they would let you used them.

Aslo worthwhile contacting various country estates in the area (Conaglen,
Eracht and Torridon come to mind - if they still exist) and see if they
have anything worth driving on - they will probably charge you something
for access but it can't hurt to try. It's even an angle to spin "If I give
you a fiver will you let me drive down that road that you never use and is
nothing but shingle and shale? - there's a couple of hundred of my mates
would be willing to do the same"

Also, talk to the locals - they don't bite, but make sure it's a local with
a highland accent and not one with a Surrey accent There is a distinct
difference in hospitality between them.. They will probably look at you
oddly and not understand why you want to drive on unsurfaced tracks, but
they are friendly enough and can probably help.

Bear in mind that there are a lot of roads up there which are single tracked
and dubiously passable which constitute the only means of access to entire
villages - they are the softest of green lanes, but they are definitely
rights of way. One that comes to mind is from Ardgour (over the Corran
ferry) up through Trislaig to Corpach - it's a single tracked road which
depending on how long it's been since it was last siurfaced can be quite
nasty to drive on. Just bear in mind that it *is* a main road and to be
ready to give way and pull into a passing place if you see oncoming
traffic. This may mean you reversing up to 100yds in som occurrances.

Further south, if you go up Loch Lomond side and rather than turning off for
Fort William head for Arrochar and keep on going you will eventually (20
miles or so) come to the Rest and be thankful. Turn left there and head for
Lochgoilhead. This will take you down Glen Croe which is an *interesting* B
road. When you get to Lochgoilhead itself, rather than going around the
loch for St Catherines, head up what passes for a main street in the town
past the supermarket and post office and keep going. You will run out of
surfaced road in around 1/2 mile and onto green lane. I would imagine this
is right of way as it's the access route to houses for around 5 miles. An
interesting drive nonetheless.

Let us know if any of the above pay off for you.

[Andrew Kay]

"Paul S. Brown" <***@geekstuff.co.uk> wrote in message news:bnle41$11h5em$***@ID-169718.news.uni-berlin.de...

<snip>

Post by Paul S. Brown

Post by Andrew Kay
The main criteria for establishing a public Right of Way in Scotland at
[i] It must join two public places, usually but not necessarily roads.
[ii] It must follow a more or less defined route but it does not have to
[be
visible on the ground as a path or track in open country.
[iii] It must have been used openly and peaceably by the public, as of
right, without the permission, express or implied of the landowner.
[iv] It must have been used without substantial or effective

interruption

Post by Paul S. Brown

Post by Andrew Kay
for 20 years or more.
The big difficulties are [iii] and [iv]. On a practical level, you'll
find very few routes you could drive anyway.

<snip>

Post by Paul S. Brown
If you are coming from the south then I'd recommend the old Kilmacolm ->
Greenock road which runs past Loch Thom reservoir. It was metalled, but is
now unmaintained (since the late 50s) and has deteriorated. It is still a
council adopted road and as such a vehicular right of way howewver it has
signs at either end recommending that vehicular traffic not use it.

There is a similar one much further north that runs between Achgarve and the
abandoned village of Slaggan on the coast north of Gairloch. It has a blue
sign at its eastern end which reads "Unsuitable for motors except rough
terrain vehicles". With care, it could be driven in a Ford Escort. :-))

Post by Paul S. Brown
It may be worthwhile contacting the unitary authorities for a list of
adopted but unmaintained roads in the area, as these will most likely
constitute rights of way and may well be a worthwhile greenlaning exercise.

I tried that - but only with a couple of the authorities. I got the
Achgarve>Slaggan route from Alex Sutherland at the Highland Council. He
said that it is the *only* one of its type in the Highlands. I'm pretty
sure it isn't the only route with an "Unsuitable for motors" sign at the end
of it.

Post by Paul S. Brown
It's also probably worthwhile contacting the forestry commission as they
have a lot of forestry tracks that are worthwhile drives, but it's an open
question as to whether they would let you used them.

I've also done that. They say that there are no forest tracks that they
allow the public to drive in motor vehicles. Well, they do have several
so-called forest drives that have tolls - so I think their response may be
more indicative of their attitude than reality.

Post by Paul S. Brown
Aslo worthwhile contacting various country estates in the area (Conaglen,
Eracht and Torridon come to mind - if they still exist) and see if they
have anything worth driving on - they will probably charge you something
for access but it can't hurt to try.

If anyone makes any progress with that, please write about it on here. To
find out which bit of land belongs to whom, try:
http://www.whoownsscotland.org.uk/page_cache/search_engine.htm

Post by Paul S. Brown
Also, talk to the locals - they don't bite, but make sure it's a local with
a highland accent and not one with a Surrey accent.

Many of the owners of the large Scottish estates come from a *lot* further
afield than Surrey. :-)

Post by Paul S. Brown
Let us know if any of the above pay off for you.

I'll second that.

Cheers
Andrew Kay

[Paul S. Brown]

Andrew Kay wrote:

<snip>

Post by Paul S. Brown

Post by Paul S. Brown
It may be worthwhile contacting the unitary authorities for a list of
adopted but unmaintained roads in the area, as these will most likely
constitute rights of way and may well be a worthwhile greenlaning

exercise.
I tried that - but only with a couple of the authorities. I got the
Achgarve>Slaggan route from Alex Sutherland at the Highland Council. He
said that it is the *only* one of its type in the Highlands. I'm pretty
sure it isn't the only route with an "Unsuitable for motors" sign at the
end of it.

The big problem here is that the Unitary authorities have only been around
for around 5 years and don't actually know what they own. If you get lucky
you'll find somebody who used to be in the same department with the old
regional councils, your chances of finding anybody still working who was
with the county/district councils is remote. They were disbanded 30 years
ago.

Post by Paul S. Brown

Post by Paul S. Brown
It's also probably worthwhile contacting the forestry commission as they
have a lot of forestry tracks that are worthwhile drives, but it's an
open question as to whether they would let you used them.

I've also done that. They say that there are no forest tracks that they
allow the public to drive in motor vehicles. Well, they do have several
so-called forest drives that have tolls - so I think their response may be
more indicative of their attitude than reality.

That's fair enough. It may also be worthwhile contacting the National Trust
for Scotland - but I doubt it. They own most of the Crown property up north
and have ultimate say over what happens to it, but I doubt they will be
helpful

Post by Paul S. Brown

Post by Paul S. Brown
Also, talk to the locals - they don't bite, but make sure it's a local

with

Post by Paul S. Brown
a highland accent and not one with a Surrey accent.

Many of the owners of the large Scottish estates come from a *lot* further
afield than Surrey. :-)

I actually meant the local populace, not the landowners. If anybody is going
to know where a green lane is it's going to be the local teenagers with the
Series motors and quad bikes.


P.

[Mark]

Post by Paul S. Brown
I actually meant the local populace, not the landowners. If anybody is going
to know where a green lane is it's going to be the local teenagers with the
Series motors and quad bikes.

<smile> I had definitely intended to ask about, especially in whatever turns
out to be my local for the week. Its amazing how much interest you can
generate just pulling up in a Land Rover and building that interest into a
conversation that leads to where can I go to get it stuck is easily done.
You have both given me some good tips to look up and highlight onto the
maps. I had also plotted some coastal villages that have ferry access only,
yet tracks that lead out towards the more inland sections, one in particular
that appears to have a track that travels about 20km or so back to an A
road. I expect these to be convenience tracks for when the sea is too rough
to boat supplies in. Having spent a few years living on Lewis as a child I
know about that!

Andrew you mentioned the Glass website and the routes database and I know i
ought to stump up and support, which I proberbly will, as I have been
itching to see what is listed in there for ages anyways.

Paul thankyou for your route tips, keep them coming, I have checked back
through google groups and this thread contains more actual information on
scotland than any other I have read so far, including Andrews own thread
from a few years ago ;-) and most of it has come from you!

You can tell I knew what I was facing when I gave myself a couple of months
to do the research in, at least My landrover this winter wont need tinkering
with all the time!


Mark

[John Page]

Post by Andrew Kay
There is a similar one much further north that runs between Achgarve and the
abandoned village of Slaggan on the coast north of Gairloch. It has a blue
sign at its eastern end which reads "Unsuitable for motors except rough
terrain vehicles". With care, it could be driven in a Ford Escort. :-))

There was a Caravan at the far end when We did it.

Post by Andrew Kay

Post by Paul S. Brown
It's also probably worthwhile contacting the forestry commission as they
have a lot of forestry tracks that are worthwhile drives, but it's an open
question as to whether they would let you used them.

I've also done that. They say that there are no forest tracks that they
allow the public to drive in motor vehicles. Well, they do have several
so-called forest drives that have tolls - so I think their response may be
more indicative of their attitude than reality.

Actually that's not true, the old road from Abernethy glen to Auctermuchty
is just
such an asserted ROW.

The Sluggan pass is also a vehiculat ROW and the glen Douglas road (take the
public
not the military road) although I drovew that in a volvo so it's not
difficult.

Others of more uncertain rights include (Use streetmap to find these)

Craighat to Jamestown.
Pubil to Kenknock (actually as metalled road)

Don't know many up in the mallaig area though :-(

There are plenty of short driveable greenlanes in Scotland but they are not
marked as
ROW on maps and right to drive is questionable, on the other hand if you
genuinely
dont show you have been doen them and even more so if you don't even have to
open gates
then who's to know.

[Andrew Kay]

Post by John Page

Post by Andrew Kay
abandoned village of Slaggan on the coast north of Gairloch. It has a
sign at its eastern end which reads "Unsuitable for motors except rough
terrain vehicles". With care, it could be driven in a Ford Escort.

:-))

Post by John Page
There was a Caravan at the far end when We did it.

The caravan was only half way along (on the RHS as you head towards Slaggan)
when we did it in Aug 2002.

Post by John Page
Actually that's not true, the old road from Abernethy glen to Auctermuchty
is just such an asserted ROW.

It's shown as yellow on Streetmap - is it tarmac?

Post by John Page
The Sluggan pass is also a vehiculat ROW

That's new to me - thanks.

Post by John Page
and the glen Douglas road (take the public not the military road) although

I drovew that in a volvo so it's not difficult.

Again, that's shown as yellow on Streetmap. Is it not tarmac?

Post by John Page
Craighat to Jamestown.

Now that looks an interesting route - must have a look next time I'm in the
area (probably next year now). There are several gates shown on streetmap -
are they of the kind that come with a padlock? :-)

Post by John Page
Pubil to Kenknock (actually as metalled road)

I drove along that in August this year. It's a private road, owned by
Scottish Hydro - but I'm sure it has public vehicular rights. The only
reason I didn't mention it, is that it's tarmac for the whole of its
length - very scenic though and definitely worth a look anyway.

Oddly, there are "No Through Road" signs on the public roads a few miles
towards Killin from Kenknock and also on the road back down Glen Lyon from
Pubil. All that really means is that the bits in between are not adopted
and not maintained at public expense.

Post by John Page
There are plenty of short driveable greenlanes in Scotland but they are not
marked as ROW on maps and right to drive is questionable, on the other

hand if you

Post by John Page
genuinely dont show you have been doen them and even more so if you don't

even have to

Post by John Page
open gates then who's to know.

There are some in that category in Galloway Forest Park. For example, if
you turn north off the A712 at grid reference NX506725 there is an
unsurfaced forest track to Black Loch. It's signposted "Black Loch" on the
main road. When you get to Black Loch, you'll see a signpost "Old
Edinburgh Road" pointing along a forest track. There is nothing that says
you cannot drive it. :-)

I think there are one or two in Abernethy Forest too that might be worth a
look (near Aviemore).

Anyone else know any?

Cheers
Andrew Kay

[Llandrovers]

Post by Andrew Kay
I think there are one or two in Abernethy Forest too that might be worth a
look (near Aviemore).

Yes, there are a few. I drove a couple of them in 2000 last time I was up in
the area.

I'm heading up to Scotland myself shortly for a few days, will probably be
doing some green lane driving. Hope the weather holds so I can get some good
scenic landscape photography done as well.

[Andrew Kay]

Post by Llandrovers
I'm heading up to Scotland myself shortly for a few days, will probably be
doing some green lane driving. Hope the weather holds so I can get some good
scenic landscape photography done as well.

If you can't in Scotland, then you should take the camera & drop it down the
nearest well. :-)

Cheers
Andrew

[John Page]

Post by Andrew Kay

Post by John Page
Actually that's not true, the old road from Abernethy glen to Auctermuchty
is just such an asserted ROW.

It's shown as yellow on Streetmap - is it tarmac?

Nope, definatley not tarmac, forest track, mostly hardcore.
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=320255&Y=713735&A=Y&Z=3
This is listed as a Veh ROW by Scotways (I have the list of vrow's from
their database on behalf of the Scottish off road club).

Post by Andrew Kay

Post by John Page
The Sluggan pass is also a vehiculat ROW

That's new to me - thanks.

An Sluggan is supposed the best known, even the scotways website mentions
it.

Post by Andrew Kay

Post by John Page
and the glen Douglas road (take the public not the military road) although

I drovew that in a volvo so it's not difficult.
Again, that's shown as yellow on Streetmap. Is it not tarmac?

It is tarmac but I dont think its and adopted road.and very steep and
windy at the west end but tarmac.

Post by Andrew Kay

Post by John Page
Craighat to Jamestown.

Now that looks an interesting route - must have a look next time I'm in the
area (probably next year now). There are several gates shown on streetmap -
are they of the kind that come with a padlock? :-)

All but two are no longer there, middle two are not padlocked.

Post by Andrew Kay
There are some in that category in Galloway Forest Park. For example, if
you turn north off the A712 at grid reference NX506725 there is an
unsurfaced forest track to Black Loch. It's signposted "Black Loch" on the
main road. When you get to Black Loch, you'll see a signpost "Old
Edinburgh Road" pointing along a forest track. There is nothing that says
you cannot drive it. :-)

Oooh, I'll add it to the list

Post by Andrew Kay
Anyone else know any?

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=260115&Y=874820&A=Y&Z=3
heading west.

This is signed (paraphrased due to memory)

'Forest Enterprise, in keeping with the open forest policy of froest
enterprise this
are is open to all for recreational purposes)

Well recreational 4wd seemed to be in that to me.

SE from
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=252835&Y=633635&A=Y&Z=3
is most entertaining. Old cobbled road with 6 inches of dirt on it so
cobbles only visible
at bottom of ruts.

W from
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=264685&Y=628235&A=Y&Z=3

Pretty stone metalled but unsealed track across moorland, boggy in parts,
joins old avenue to
now missing mansion house, cobbled ford over river.

[Andrew Kay]

Post by John Page

Post by Andrew Kay

Post by John Page
The Sluggan pass is also a vehiculat ROW

That's new to me - thanks.

An Sluggan is supposed the best known, even the scotways website mentions
it.

Oh - maybe I'd better have another wander around their site. Mmmm ...... I
wonder which page it will be on (hint). :-)

Cheers
Andrew Kay

[Nick Nelson]

Some years (15?) ago I drove the old military road from
Laggan to Fort Augustus across the Corrieyairack Pass in
my old Series IIa. Isn't this still possible?

Nick

[Andrew Kay]

Post by Nick Nelson
Some years (15?) ago I drove the old military road from
Laggan to Fort Augustus across the Corrieyairack Pass in
my old Series IIa. Isn't this still possible?

It was obstructed in 1996 by the previous owner of the Culachy estate, at
its western end near Fort Augustus. A couple of substantial steel posts
were set vertically into the road, only a few feet from the gate which opens
onto it from the tarmac public road. I don't know what the current owner's
position is, but the last time I looked (Aug 2001), the obstructions were
still in place.

Neither the Scottish Rights of Way & Access Society (Scotways) nor the
Highland Council believe it to be a proven vehicular right of way.
Effectively, this means that no one has yet provided sufficient evidence of
vehicular usage by the public.

The Highland Council are not willing to take action to remove the
obstructions, because they claim that it would support the contention that
the route is vehicular - and their RoW officer (who happens to have the same
name as a director of Scotways) did not believe that there was sufficient
will among the elected members to do that.

Ho hum ...........

Cheers
Andrew Kay

[John Page]

Post by Andrew Kay
It was obstructed in 1996 by the previous owner of the Culachy estate, at
its western end near Fort Augustus. A couple of substantial steel posts
were set vertically into the road, only a few feet from the gate which opens
onto it from the tarmac public road. I don't know what the current owner's
position is, but the last time I looked (Aug 2001), the obstructions were
still in place.

I have heard that said posts have fallen foul of a winch at least once.

[Andrew Kay]

Post by Andrew Kay
It was obstructed in 1996 by the previous owner of the Culachy estate, at
its western end near Fort Augustus. A couple of substantial steel posts
were set vertically into the road, only a few feet from the gate which

opens onto it from the tarmac public road. I don't know what the current
owner's position is, but the last time I looked (Aug 2001), the

obstructions were

Post by Andrew Kay
still in place.

I have heard that said posts have fallen foul of a winch at least once.

..... and so they should. In England & Wales, users have a right to abate
such illegal obstructions. Don't they have a similar right in Scottish law?

Cheers
Andrew

[Bob Webster]

Post by Andrew Kay

Post by Andrew Kay
It was obstructed in 1996 by the previous owner of the Culachy estate,

at

Post by Andrew Kay
its western end near Fort Augustus. A couple of substantial steel posts
were set vertically into the road, only a few feet from the gate which

opens onto it from the tarmac public road. I don't know what the current
owner's position is, but the last time I looked (Aug 2001), the

obstructions were

Post by Andrew Kay
still in place.

Interest point on this, Highland council have placed "Traffic
Restrictions" on this road a couple of times in the past years (I have
copies of the notices!) and these are only valid for public
highways.............

Post by Andrew Kay

I have heard that said posts have fallen foul of a winch at least once.

..... and so they should. In England & Wales, users have a right to abate
such illegal obstructions. Don't they have a similar right in Scottish law?
Cheers
Andrew

[Andrew Kay]

Post by Bob Webster
Interest point on this, Highland council have placed "Traffic
Restrictions" on this road a couple of times in the past years (I have
copies of the notices!) and these are only valid for public
highways.............

Indeed.

In an EMail from the Highland Council to me in June 2002, Alex Sutherland
confirmed that: "The temporary closure order has expired and no longer
applies" with regard to the most recent closure order made in 1997 (minutes
of the Highland Council are still on their website).

Cheers
Andrew Kay

[John Page]

Post by Paul S. Brown
If you are coming from the south then I'd recommend the old Kilmacolm ->
Greenock road which runs past Loch Thom reservoir. It was metalled, but is
now unmaintained (since the late 50s) and has deteriorated. It is still a
council adopted road and as such a vehicular right of way howewver it has
signs at either end recommending that vehicular traffic not use it. This is
on the grounds of damage/grounding for the vehicle, but it is easily
passable by anything with more than around 8" ground clearance.

Is that the one to the west of Loch Thom, the road to the east is normal
single
track road, to the west the road via Cornalees is Gated at both ends.

[Paul S. Brown]

Post by John Page

Post by Paul S. Brown
If you are coming from the south then I'd recommend the old Kilmacolm ->
Greenock road which runs past Loch Thom reservoir. It was metalled, but
is now unmaintained (since the late 50s) and has deteriorated. It is
still a council adopted road and as such a vehicular right of way
howewver it has signs at either end recommending that vehicular traffic
not use it. This

is

Post by Paul S. Brown
on the grounds of damage/grounding for the vehicle, but it is easily
passable by anything with more than around 8" ground clearance.

Is that the one to the west of Loch Thom, the road to the east is normal
single
track road, to the west the road via Cornalees is Gated at both ends.

Couldn't say east or west. It was mainly being used by the Forestry when I
was there. It may have been gated since.

Access to it was from the (I think) B739 which is a right turn about a mile
out of Kilmacolm and is signposted Port Glasgow.

P.