VW Diesel Scam

[bert]

Come back V8 - all is forgiven.

[Bob Hobden]

Post by bert
Come back V8 - all is forgiven.

Nothing to be complacent about, if the vast and rich VW group can't get
their Diesel engine to meet both emissions and fuel consumption requirements
at the same time without cheating who says anyone else can. Yes it's started
with the Audi A3, Golf, etc but where will this scandal end.

[Bill]

Post by Bob Hobden

Post by bert
Come back V8 - all is forgiven.

Nothing to be complacent about, if the vast and rich VW group can't get
their Diesel engine to meet both emissions and fuel consumption
requirements at the same time without cheating who says anyone else
can. Yes it's started with the Audi A3, Golf, etc but where will this
scandal end.

Hopefully with the realisation that, as the chairman of JCB said in a
letter to the Telegraph yesterday said, everyone would be better off
concentrating on building more efficient engines rather than bodging
along bolting on assorted junk for each emission fad as it comes along.

[Bob Hobden]

Bob Hobden writes

Post by Bob Hobden

Post by bert
Come back V8 - all is forgiven.

Nothing to be complacent about, if the vast and rich VW group can't get
their Diesel engine to meet both emissions and fuel consumption
requirements at the same time without cheating who says anyone else can.
Yes it's started with the Audi A3, Golf, etc but where will this scandal
end.

Hopefully with the realisation that, as the chairman of JCB said in a
letter to the Telegraph yesterday said, everyone would be better off
concentrating on building more efficient engines rather than bodging along
bolting on assorted junk for each emission fad as it comes along.

We have been hearing for decades about the Fuel Cell which generates
electricity from hydrogen cleanly so allowing an electric car with no range
problems, you refill as now (but with better pumps) yet only now are cars
beginning to appear on the roads as experimental vehicle fleets. They still
haven't worked out a "green" way to refine hydrogen and haven't even started
a distribution network.
Having driven in a BMW i3 I can see the enthusiasm for electric vehicles,
full torque from standstill, quietness, clean, no pollution on the road
(it's at the power station) but could our generating network cope if we
switched?

[Adrian]

Post by Bob Hobden
Having driven in a BMW i3 I can see the enthusiasm for electric
vehicles, full torque from standstill, quietness, clean, no pollution on
the road (it's at the power station) but could our generating network
cope if we switched?

Not even close. We already have a short term generating capacity
shortfall, on current demand.

Nor could the National Grid.

Just a very localised demonstration of that - we have a transformer up a
pole in the garden, serving eight houses and a farm.

Western Power replaced the original 1960s transformer last year. The 11kV
lines to it have all three conductors, so no problem with three-phase,
although the old transformer was single-phase, fused to 200A.

The new one... is single-phase, fused to 200A

The highest rated single-phase chargers are 32A - which Tesla say gives
22 miles per hour of charging. If all nine properties plugged just one
single car in simultaneously, the draw would be nearly 300A - even before
anything else people might want to do whilst waiting for their car to
charge.

So that 200A @ 230v - between 8 houses and a farm - is 46kW... A Tesla
Supercharger is 135kW...

Now imagine the sheer amount of current being pulled by your average
motorway services...! (remembering that your current diesel repmobile has
a range of ~6-700 miles, versus less than 300 absolute max for current
electrics, less than 100 for most.)

[Dave Liquorice]

Post by Adrian
Not even close. We already have a short term generating capacity
shortfall, on current demand.

In winter yes, I haven't heard "quaking in their boots" about the
winter to come and how much margin there is (or isn't). Unless it
gets an extension, Wylfa closes for good in December thats 440 MW
gone for a start.

Post by Adrian
Nor could the National Grid.

Agreed, the grid is load balancing not distribution.

Post by Adrian
The new one... is single-phase, fused to 200A

Find it a bit odd for there to be 3 phases available but not to use
them. Is there really only a single 200 A fuse on the pole?

Post by Adrian
Now imagine the sheer amount of current being pulled by your average
motorway services...!

Think of it in energy terms. Cars filling up with say 50 l of diesel
is in the order of 500 kWhr of energy. Through put of cars, 1 a
minute? So in an hour that filling station has "dispensed" 30,000
kWhr of energy. I think that works out at about 1,000 A per phase @
11 kV or 330 A per phase @ 33 kV (ish).

[Adrian]

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by Adrian
The new one... is single-phase, fused to 200A

Find it a bit odd for there to be 3 phases available but not to use
them. Is there really only a single 200 A fuse on the pole?

Yes, and one of the conductors coming across the fields is left unused.

Post by Dave Liquorice

Post by Adrian
Now imagine the sheer amount of current being pulled by your average
motorway services...!

Think of it in energy terms. Cars filling up with say 50 l of diesel is
in the order of 500 kWhr of energy. Through put of cars, 1 a minute? So
in an hour that filling station has "dispensed" 30,000 kWhr of energy. I

On the bright side, picture the end result when some toerag tries to nick
the cables...

[John Williamson]

Post by Bob Hobden
We have been hearing for decades about the Fuel Cell which generates
electricity from hydrogen cleanly so allowing an electric car with no
range problems, you refill as now (but with better pumps) yet only now
are cars beginning to appear on the roads as experimental vehicle
fleets. They still haven't worked out a "green" way to refine hydrogen
and haven't even started a distribution network.

Hydrogen power, both as fuel cells and modified Otto cycle engines, is
under trial for buses in London and other cities worldwide. There are
two truly "green" ways to produce hydrogen for mobile applications. One
uses solar and wind power to electrolyse water, the other uses nuclear
power.

So which way did the Powers That Be choose? They heat methane using
fossil fuel until it splits into carbon and hydrogen, then throw away
the carbon. How daft is that?

Post by Bob Hobden
Having driven in a BMW i3 I can see the enthusiasm for electric
vehicles, full torque from standstill, quietness, clean, no pollution on
the road (it's at the power station) but could our generating network
cope if we switched?

Given a decently efficient solar cell array on the average suburban
house roof and a wind turbine, on most days, you could put enough charge
into an electric car like the G-Whiz for a short inner city or suburban
commuting run by either having two battery packs for the car, swapping
them daily, or having a rather larger battery pack at the house to allow
for the losses, and storing the charge for night time recharging of the
car. Or alternatively, we could all start working nights and charging
the cars during the day.

[Geo]

Post by Bob Hobden
Having driven in a BMW i3 I can see the enthusiasm for electric vehicles,
full torque from standstill, quietness, clean, no pollution on the road
(it's at the power station) but could our generating network cope if we
switched?

There's an interesting argument that oil refinement requires such vast
amounts of electricity that, if we were to stop refining oil, there would
already be adequate reserves to power an all-electric car fleet (or
something along those lines, can't be arsed to look for the exact
statement). As a slight caveat, the person who said this was Elon Musk, so
not the most impartial of stakeholders.